Transcript

[00:03] MOLLY MCMILLAN: My name is Molly McMillan. I am 67 years old. Today’s date is March 8, 2023, in Wichita, Kansas. My interview partner’s name is Ben Sauceda.

[00:18] BEN SAUCEDA: My name is Ben Sauceda I am 39 years old. Today is still March 8, 2023, and we’re here at the Kansas Aviation Museum in Wichita, Kansas. And I get the opportunity to speak with Molly McMillan, who I know through aviation work at the museum and her work in aviation journalism.

[00:42] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes. Thanks for having me back.

[00:44] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. Thank you, Molly. This is a fun part. I always want to do a podcast one day, but I never will get to it, but get the opportunity to meet people along the way in aviation and learn a lot about them. So today has been a fun day already, but just kind of getting started here. We met about a year, year and a half ago or so, and just enjoy listening to your stories of your time in journalism and in aviation more specifically. So I guess we’ll just kind of start you Wichita person.

[01:20] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I was born in Wichita. My father and mother came to Wichita for my dad to take a job at Boeing back in the day after he was in world War two. And they were both from Iowa. And after the war, they went to California for a while. They went back to Iowa for a while, and he heard that Boeing was hiring. And actually, my uncle had taken a job at Boeing and moved to Wichita, and they came to visit my aunt and uncle. And when he was here, he decided to put an application in with Boeing. And by the time he got home, Boeing was calling and offered him a job. So we’ve been here since then.

[01:57] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. So those were the early B 52 days. He was on the 47 program even later then. That’s awesome. The B 47 is a plan that’s overlooked a lot because it just didn’t get used as much.

[02:11] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Right. So it was after the war, but, yes, he started there, and then he ended up retiring from Boeing in 1989, I believe.

[02:20] BEN SAUCEDA: A good career. So did you go to Wichita State or.

[02:25] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I did. I’m a graduate of Wichita State, proud graduate of the Elliott School of Communications. I majored in communication with a, with an emphasis on journalism.

[02:36] BEN SAUCEDA: So did you get into journalism just right out of high school or college? I mean. Or did you do other work in.

[02:41] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Between right out of college? I did. But I was one of those returning adult students where I had three children when I went back to school. And in fact, I graduated from Wichita State on a Saturday, and my son graduated from high school the next day on a Sunday.

[03:00] BEN SAUCEDA: Lots of graduation.

[03:02] MOLLY MCMILLAN: The older returning adults that’s a lot.

[03:04] BEN SAUCEDA: Of graduation gifts then in one household. Right.

[03:07] MOLLY MCMILLAN: It was a fun weekend.

[03:08] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. That’s awesome. So from once you finish that, you go back to work at Wichita State for a little while, or did you get.

[03:16] MOLLY MCMILLAN: No, my first job was as managing editor of a startup publication in Topeka called the Kansas Business Report. It was a startup publication, kind of like the Wichita Business Journal, only for the Northeast corridor. So Manhattan, Lawrence, Topeka, that area. And then the publication sold. We are staff of two. I was managing editor and Pete Stauffer was publisher and editor. And then it eventually the Stauffer group got sold, and then they kind of spun the magazine off. And in the meantime, I had gotten a job, an offer with the Wichita Business Journal. So I had come back to Wichita, and then eight months later, the Wichita Eagle invited me to come and apply, and I got hired as the banking reporter, actually at the Wichita Eagle. And that was 1995.

[04:10] BEN SAUCEDA: So you went to Topeka. It was just general business information going on in the corridor up there?

[04:16] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes, it was a business report. So everything. What was going on in the legislature regarding business different, like construction, real estate, retail, whatever was going on in that northeast corridor for business, all business focused.

[04:33] BEN SAUCEDA: So was it at your time at Wichita, the Wichita Eagle that transitioned from that banking or financial sector towards aviation, or did that come later?

[04:42] MOLLY MCMILLAN: No, it was as part of the Kansas business report and with the Wichita Business Journal. You know, aviation and manufacturing is kind of one of many beats that you. That you followed. So I had written about it, but it wasn’t my total focus. And when I started at the, at the Wichita Eagle, Dave Higdon was the aviation reporter, and then he left. And then Bob Cox, who had covered retail, real estate and economic development, took over aviation. So I started covering real estate, retail and economic development. And then Bob went down to the Fort Worth Star Telegram and eventually went on to Airbus helicopters in Fort Worth. And now he’s retired. But then when he left for Fort Worth, I took over as the aviation reporter, and it stuck.

[05:32] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. That’s awesome. So now you’ve moved from Wichita Eagle to work with the aviation Week publication?

[05:41] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes. Yes. In 2015, January 2015, I started with the Aviation Week network. So I do a couple of things. One is I am editor of a weekly publication called the Weekly of Business Aviation. So it’s all corporate business aviation focused. And then we also have a publication, a daily publication called Business and commercial aviation, BCA Digest. And it goes out to a lot of corporate pilots, flight departments, FBO’s, charter operators. So I’m helped with responsibilities for that publication as well. So it’s fun.

[06:21] BEN SAUCEDA: So you mentioned your dad being a Boeing employee for most of, if not almost all, his career. Did that give you a love or a passion for aviation to begin with, or did it just kind of grow over time as you got more involved in aviation journalism?

[06:38] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I think it evolved over time. One thing is, my dad was a private pilot, and he loved to fly. And he had a couple of airplanes. One was a Taylor craft, a tail dragger Taylor craft. Another was a 1956 Piper tripacer. And I learned to fly in his tri pacer, so that was a lot of fun. And he, for a time, he was building an airplane at the house. So after I had moved out, he actually converted my old bedroom into a workstation. I know one time I came home, I came back to see my mom, and she was gone. But my dad met me at the door and said, come here, come here. And he had pulled up the carpet and taken an engine and had turned it over on a, on legs, and he didn’t realize there had been oil in it. And so the oil had spilled out of it all over the floor. And he’s like, we’ve got to clean this up before your mother gets home. So we took newspapers and we cleaned up the oil. He didn’t have a garage at the time, but because of that, he built a garage so he’d have a place to work, and so he would, from Boeing’s supply, you know, they had a surplus supply. You could buy surplus items, and so he would buy aluminum and different things and drag it home. And he was building this airplane. And then when he retired, he said, hell, I’ll die before I get this airplane built. So that’s, I think that’s when he got the tripacer.

[08:09] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. So he probably also built the garage so he wouldn’t get in trouble anymore, I’m guessing.

[08:13] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes, he can keep the mess away from the house.

[08:16] BEN SAUCEDA: So you learned. Did you become a pilot yourself?

[08:19] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I did.

[08:20] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[08:20] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yeah. In that tripaser.

[08:22] BEN SAUCEDA: So you got your certification. We had Mary Aikens earlier, and she was talking about her FAA time as an FAA instructor and signing off on the ride checks.

[08:30] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, that’s awesome.

[08:31] BEN SAUCEDA: So because you’re a part, though, and I will transition there just a little bit as a pilot, you’re also part of a pretty unique group here in Kansas, and they’re an international organization known as the 99s.

[08:44] MOLLY MCMILLAN: That’s right. I am part of the local 99 here in Wichita.

[08:48] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. Do you mind telling us a little bit about what that is because I think that’s something that people don’t know necessarily what the 99s organization is about.

[08:55] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Sure. Absolutely. Amelia Earhart was a founding member of the 99s. It started with 99 women pilots, and it has grown to be an international organization of women pilots. It’s a really wonderful support group for pilots. I know the men have their quiet birds. Is that what it’s called? Quiet. I think it’s called quiet Birds, yeah. And we have the 99. So there’s still an active organization in Wichita. They do the, it used to be called the Powderpuff Derby, but now they do the air races. I am no longer active, unfortunately, but it’s a, it’s a wonderful group.

[09:35] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure. Sure. Then we talk a little bit about the 99s here at the museum because of our tie with Louis Theden, you know, and having her playing here, because it’s just an interesting story.

[09:46] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I’ll clarify. I’m no longer an active pilot. I need to renew, but I’m still active with the 99 in Wichita.

[09:58] BEN SAUCEDA: And I don’t know if this was a Kansas thing or not. When we were putting the women of aviation exhibit together, they did allow men to join, and they were called 49 and a half ersitive.

[10:08] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes. And I will say that we allow the men to come to our meetings or Christmas parties and all of that, although we’re not invited to the quiet bird.

[10:16] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, man. We need to find somebody who’s, I’m not a member because I’m not a pilot. But to that, I think it’s interesting as people get into these is the 99s is women pilots. But then there’s also women in aviation as another organization, and that’s tailored to people who don’t necessarily fall into that pilot category. Is that correct?

[10:40] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Right. If you’re working in aviation, you’re in aviation. It’s a much broader group, and it’s.

[10:46] BEN SAUCEDA: Just, again, a support group to keep people engaged within, promote the careers in.

[10:52] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Aviation which the women, you know, with such a shortage of people in aviation, workers, maintenance pilots, everyone. And when you look at women or half of the population, but only make up a smaller, much smaller portion of aviation employment, that it’s a real key opportunity for, you know, to promote jobs with women, with minorities, with everyone to try to get into the industry.

[11:25] BEN SAUCEDA: So you, you got your pilot’s license before you started covering aviation in terms of journalism, or did you get that afterwards?

[11:33] MOLLY MCMILLAN: It was much later.

[11:35] BEN SAUCEDA: Really? Okay.

[11:35] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes. I started covering aviation in 1999, 2000. And I didn’t get my license until 2011.

[11:44] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, wow. In the fifties, it took me a little while. So you learned a little on that tripaser?

[11:48] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yes. I’d say it took me a while to get started. Yeah. It was funny, because my dad had been a pilot since forever, and he would always tell me how easy it was to learn to fly. Oh, it’s nothing to it. It’s just so easy. And so when I started, I thought, well, it can’t be that hard, because my dad has told me for years it’s not. And then I’m like, dad, what are you talking about? There’s a lot of things to study. There’s a lot to know. And so I was, to him, it was easy because he’d flown for so long, and back then, he soloed it, like, 9 hours, which is ridiculous, which even he says was probably not enough. But it just came very naturally for him. And, like when my flight instructor was trying to teach me about how an engine works and the carburetor, and he would say, and I’m not mechanically inclined, and he would say, well, you know how a lawnmower works, right? And I’m like, I really don’t know how our lawnmower works.

[12:46] BEN SAUCEDA: Can we do that lesson, too?

[12:47] MOLLY MCMILLAN: So he’s like, oh, okay. So it. I did more of a traditional, sure. Maybe even slower than if you have a mechanical brain, you’re probably faster on it. But it was a lot of fun, and I was very. He was so proud of me when I got my license.

[13:09] BEN SAUCEDA: That’s awesome. So back to. I guess we’ll kind of move back in towards the journalism and aviation side. So, obviously, you’ve probably been able to cover quite a few interesting stories that have happened here in Wichita and probably across the country. But Wichita being the air capitol, we always seem to provide a lot of headlines.

[13:31] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I could probably talk all day about the changes in Wichita in the end in aviation, from when I just even started till now. One of the biggest changes was in 2005, when Boeing decided to sell their commercial site here, which to Onyx Corporation, which ultimately became spirit aerosystems and is now a publicly traded company. But that was huge news, because Boeing had been there at that time for 85 years, and it had built 1600 b lot of warbirds, and, you know, just every portion, a portion of every Boeing commercial aircraft. So. And there were thousands of people that had worked there at one time many, many years ago. Before my time, it employed 40,000 people. And this is, you know, one reason why Wichita actually is kind of laid out the way it is to divert traffic to Boeing, why Plainview was built and why some of the hilltop area was built. Because workers would come in from the farms and from other areas, and they would need a place to stay. And there wasn’t enough housing during the war for Wichita. And so that, and then that area, Plainview, was going to be torn down. It never has been, but that Boeing history runs deep and wide here. So when they decided to sell and move, that was huge news. Spirit is now the largest employer, a private employer in the state. So they’ve kept that legacy alive, and now they’ve moved into Airbus work and other things. They’ve really enlarged what they, what they do, getting into every aspect of aviation.

[15:24] BEN SAUCEDA: And they’ve even expanded beyond aviation into more aerospace as well, with NASA and SpaceX, I believe, doing work there. So it’s, it’s one of those. You’re right. That was a shock to the community. I was never in aviation, but I’ve been in Wichita my entire life. So Boeing is synonymous with Wichita, or had been, yes.

[15:45] MOLLY MCMILLAN: And I guess, you know, Boeing put a lot of meals on our table growing up. That was our, you know, my dad’s livelihood growing up, so that it wasn’t here anymore was like grandma leaving town, you know, it was huge now. And not everyone got an offer from spirits. So it was, you know, for those who weren’t hired, they couldn’t hire every person.

[16:09] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Because they’re significantly, even though they’re the largest, they’re still significantly lower then what Boeing was at.

[16:17] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Right? I need to look. Yes, but employee aviation employment in Wichita is about half of what it was in, say, the year 2000. This is kind of interesting, actually, that this huge manufacturing transformation in Wichita. And I brought a couple of figures just because I think it’s fascinating. And employment is not the whole story here. So if you look at the aviation workforce in the year 2000, it was 44,721 people. If you look at it, the end of 2021, where the last figures were available, that had dropped to 22,820 people. So almost half. Not quite, but that’s not the entire story. If you look at manufacturing output, the output is higher today than it was when we had 44,000 people. And the story is the manufacturing transformation that has taken place in the last 20 years, in which there’s a lot more digitalized, there’s a lot more manufacturing, advanced manufacturing processes, automated riveting, robotics, streamlined production. And, you know, with the workforce shortage, it helps manufacturers kind of address that, but it’s also more efficient more ergonomically advantageous. So there’s a lot has been going on kind of quietly in Wichita that you really don’t see because we’re not in the plants every day. But they’ve. And the, the manufacturing output would have been easier, even higher, had it not been for the Covid-19 pandemic because things kind of scaled back then. So had it not been then that manufacturing output would have been even higher. So there’s. And these numbers all came from Wichita State University, the Center for Economic Development and Business Research.

[18:22] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. So. Well, and I think even to that is when we. And I don’t want to get off, but a lot of that when you talk about economic or the output is that, and the transformation within this is that there’s a whole vast network of it work or manufacturing work that’s going on that’s supplying the machines that are being used now in facilities. So we’ve just made it more effective, I guess. Efficient, maybe.

[18:53] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Much more efficient.

[18:55] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes.

[18:55] MOLLY MCMILLAN: The CNC machines are much faster. They can bore, like, in what? Like kind of in one step. And rather than shut down and reposition things, it’s more monolithic pieces, so much larger single pieces to bore instead of many, many parts into one piece.

[19:12] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[19:13] MOLLY MCMILLAN: So it’s, it’s. It’s been a huge change.

[19:16] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. I have so many questions asked along that route, but I know that’s not the purpose of this one because I would love to just talk baby boomers and stuff, but. So with this, who would you say have been some of those neat interviews that you’ve got to sit in and be a part of?

[19:33] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, wow. I’ve interviewed people from, you know, CEO’s to the guys on the production line. Yeah, I’m trying to think about that.

[19:49] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, I know one stories, one that I found interesting, and I was able to go and speak with him was last two weeks ago or so was Clay Lacey.

[19:58] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, yes.

[19:59] BEN SAUCEDA: And just an interesting individual. And you got to sit and talk with them as the last lyric that was delivered just a little almost a year ago right now.

[20:08] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, yes. I’ve known Clay for a long time, and he’s, you know, his nickname is Mister Learjet. He was the first Learjet distributor west of the Mississippi, I believe, if not the west of the Rockies. But he had, he was a United Airlines pilot, and. And that’s a whole other story. But he knew Bill Lear, and he became a distributor in flue Lear jets. And his amazing story.

[20:35] BEN SAUCEDA: What was it like to sit down? Just, I mean, the guy has, what, nearly 60,000 flying hours?

[20:40] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, yes. He’s a very cool gentleman. His grandmother owned a little farm here in Wichita, and she had a little airstrip. And so he was like twelve years old, and he would help her mow that airstrip. But then he would, he would beg the guy that was there to give him, you know, take him up. And so he actually soloed when he, he was like twelve or 13, but he had to lie about his age when he got his license because you couldn’t get a license until you were 16. So he started with United when he was 19, but I think they thought he was 21. And he has a story that when he wanted to retire, that age difference made a difference because they thought he was older than he was.

[21:26] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah, he was telling me, he told me that a little bit about that story was that, yeah, he was, his license, he was 61, but he was only 59 and had to get birth certificates out. So it’s just these are, and these are the people that you get, types of people that you get to build relationships with in your line of work and journalism.

[21:44] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, yes, yes. But because they, they have the stories and they, you know, that’s what’s happening in aviation with, with these folks talking to, you know, the heads of textron aviation here, which was Cessna Beechcraft before it, when it sold Boeing. You know, a lot of those folks. But everyone has a story to tell.

[22:09] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. And I mean, you know, I think what in the nineties was, was Russ Meyer still running Cessna at that time? For a little bit.

[22:17] MOLLY MCMILLAN: When I, when I started covering Cessna, it was Jack Pelton.

[22:21] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, okay. Okay. So he had Russ still. I mean, sure.

[22:25] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yeah, right. He, he still has an office there. So Russ is a huge piece of Wichita history. Absolutely. Yes.

[22:35] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Have you ever met Harrison Ford?

[22:38] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I have.

[22:39] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[22:40] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Wouldn’t remember that, but I.

[22:41] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure, yes. Well, yeah, I think I met him.

[22:44] MOLLY MCMILLAN: With a group of people that all were trying to clamor to take his photos. So. Not sure he would remember me, but, yes. At National Business Aviation association, they have, it was the big annual business aviation show, and Cessna at that time had Harrison Ford as their spokesperson for their citation airlift. Their. What’s it called? The citation.

[23:13] BEN SAUCEDA: Pull it up. So.

[23:14] MOLLY MCMILLAN: No. Oh, goodness. It’s their Special Olympics Airlines.

[23:18] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. Yes, yes.

[23:19] MOLLY MCMILLAN: They get citation pilots to volunteer their pilots and their jets and their airplanes to pick up special Olympic athletes and coaches and take them to the game. So he was at NBA when I met him, but he was their spokesperson for that.

[23:39] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. And I guess to that, too. You get to, obviously, meet a lot of neat individuals along the way, but you also get to go a lot of interesting places in terms of aviation. Is it fun in the sun?

[23:52] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Sun and fun. Sun and fun air adventure Oshkosh every year, NBAA. One of the most interesting places was with one of the Eagle photographers, Jamie Green. And I went to Russia and then to. To Italy for a series that we wrote on Wichita and Boeing’s globalization. Can we stop that a second? So we had a. The witch die Eagle had a grant for international reporting, and part of that was I had gotten permission from Boeing to do a story on the globalization. So Alan Mulally was the head of the Boeing commercial aviation. So I spoke to him about the globalization, and this was before the 787 was announced, but he had talked about how they were going to do more and more with globalization. So I went to the Boeings design center in Moscow, because they were doing work packages for Boeing Wichita. And then I went to Naples, Italy. It was outside of Naples to Alenia Aeronautica, which was at the time doing 757 skins that were being shipped here as a piece of globalization. And I was wondering whether people there worry about their jobs going somewhere, because people here, workers here, were worried about their jobs going to Mexico or China or somewhere else. And it was like, kind of their march, and it was an excellent trip. I got to go, as an aside, got to go to a large aviation museum outside of Moscow. And it was like an old soviet hangar. And the person that was director of the museum only spoke Russian. A couple of engineers came with us, and there was actually someone else from Boeing Wichita there. And so we all went out. It was like 5 miles south of the city, and we went through, and out in the field are just all these amazing airplanes. And then inside the hangars and on the way back to Moscow afterwards, the engineer who translated for us, he said, when Victor told you the stories, and I translated, I told you the stories, right? So I’m not sure what Victor was telling us, but maybe it was soviet propaganda, right? So it was a lot of fun. The other fun thing about that trip, it was, there was many facets of it that were fascinating. But at the hotel, we were staying at the national hotel, which is a. From Red Square. And the first night we came through with our bags, and Jamie had our camera, and there was a table you had to pass kind of a lounge area to go to the elevators. As we were passing, there were these gentlemen, all in uniform, and one of them kind of flagged us because Jamie had her camera, and he was like, come here, come here. And he wanted to see her camera. And he had just purchased a camera, like, from a street vendor or something, wanted to know what she thought about his camera. So he’s like, sit down. Sit down. So we were talking to them, and so it was just fun meeting them. And I asked them what they were doing here. And he was vague. He wouldn’t say. So the next morning, when we were getting ready to leave, leave the hotel, there was a newspaper stand, and there was the Moscow Times in English, and his picture was on the front page, and it said that he was a Kuwait, kuwaiti general there to buy arms. So that that night, when we came back from the Moscow design center and doing our job there, they were all those same, same, you know, people. He was like, molly, Jamie, come here. So we went over and I said, I saw your picture in the paper today. He said, oh, that story was wrong. And I said, what was wrong about it? He said, they said, we were here to buy arms. We’re just looking. So it was kind of a fun aside. We’re just looking. Okay.

[28:30] BEN SAUCEDA: At least it provides clarification. They’re open for business elsewhere, right?

[28:36] MOLLY MCMILLAN: It was fun. And actually, the last day, we had one free day, and we hired a tour guide who took us to, like, freedom park and different things. And we pulled up to Freedom park, and this van pulled up, and we looked, and it was the same general. He was hanging out the window going, moly, jeez. It was just a, you know, and then, I mean, it wasn’t planned, but it was just hilarious.

[29:02] BEN SAUCEDA: That’s cool. So I enjoy listening. So now I gotta go back into question. Go back into question mode here. So if we’re talking about the historical.

[29:16] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Boeing was certainly when it became spirit, certainly a big change.

[29:20] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[29:20] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Another big change was when Boeing decided to pull out of Wichita altogether when they closed their military side. And that was 2012 was when they announced it. And it was January 4, 2012, and they were having an all. And I had heard that they were going to have an all hands on meeting, but they wouldn’t, of course, say what they were going to announce. So I had asked if I could go, and was told no, but they were going to come to the Eagle afterwards and meet with us in the editorial board to tell us what it was they were talking about. But in the meantime, they had put out a phone number. If you were a Boeing employee that wasn’t out, let’s say you were on vacation or out that day that you could call in. So I thought, huh, I think I’ll just call. So I called in and I got in. I was actually surprised because I figured I would have to give my employee number or something, but there wasn’t, there was no one. And so I could listen into the whole thing. So as I was listening and taking notes, Kerry Rengers was tweeting out the news. So we had it kind of immediately. Right. We had it first.

[30:30] BEN SAUCEDA: Absolutely, yeah.

[30:31] MOLLY MCMILLAN: And then they came up to the Eagles so that we could ask more questions and that sort of thing and make a more whip.

[30:36] BEN SAUCEDA: Had they caught on that you guys were tweeting those out live or, you.

[30:40] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Know, I don’t know. But their pr person, they kind of probably expected that we would do it. And it was forrest gossip at the time, and he said, yeah, we figured you would do that, or we, or they didn’t think about it, but it was fine.

[30:51] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. So, yeah, so you couldn’t fix anything at that point, you know? Oh, no. Yeah.

[30:56] MOLLY MCMILLAN: I mean, I got.

[30:57] BEN SAUCEDA: And they couldn’t fix anything either.

[30:58] MOLLY MCMILLAN: And it was just, you know, I mean, all the employees knew it. As soon as the employees knew, they, then they started calling and.

[31:04] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[31:06] MOLLY MCMILLAN: So it was, it was very interesting.

[31:08] BEN SAUCEDA: And that was big because, you know, our delegation here in Kansas and even in Washington had just pushed for the reassignment of the, or the re bidding of the tanker.

[31:20] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Correct.

[31:21] BEN SAUCEDA: And in 2011, they had just announced that Boeing. And that was a lot of work here by our congressman at that point. That had led to that. Yeah, yeah. And so that did cause a lot of consternation. Yes.

[31:37] MOLLY MCMILLAN: In fact, your museum was part when the last e four b flew out of Wichita. There were people here up on the deck watching that last airplane take off that were Boeing employees or former Boeing employees. I went up here so I could watch it. We took photos from here at the museum, watching the last plane take off because this was Air Force one, where they did maintenance on Air Force one, and the e four b’s huge. And that all went to San Antonio or Oklahoma City or Seattle.

[32:07] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. And uncle, who actually ended up transporting or going back and forth between here and Oklahoma City for a couple years after that in keeping his job on that. But so you talked a little bit about the building here, you know, coming out here for that. What have been some of your, your experiences or your stories with the building that we’re in here, the museum?

[32:30] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, I used to write a weekly column for the Wichita Eagle, and one of, one of the columns was about Charlie the ghost, who. If you talk to people, they say that the museum is haunted.

[32:41] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[32:41] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Which I know you do paranormal tours.

[32:43] BEN SAUCEDA: Once a year, I believe. Yes. Yeah. They say this is one of the most haunted buildings in Wichita. That’s what they say.

[32:49] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Yeah. So at least the lights are still on as well. We speak here.

[32:52] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes.

[32:53] MOLLY MCMILLAN: So I wrote a story one time about Charlie the ghost, but the other story after that one ran, I got a call from a gentleman that wanted me to talk to his mother because she had worked in the restaurant back in the day when it was still a terminal. The terminal where, you know, all the.

[33:13] BEN SAUCEDA: Famous Fred Astaire, and I always say Hugh Grant. But it wasn’t Hugh Grant. It was Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes. And, man, I can’t. My mind. But, yeah, so.

[33:26] MOLLY MCMILLAN: But her story was, one day, she was serving breakfast, she was on the morning shift, and this guy came in that was, like, a homeless guy. He was disheveled. His clothes were unkempt. He came in and he ordered eggs and breakfast. So she served him. Well, then when it came time to pay, he just left without paying. And so they just. She just thought he was a homeless guy that came in for breakfast, somehow found his way here and said, as soon as he left, some well dressed gentleman came running in the door to pay for his breakfast. And that had been Howard Hughes that had come in for breakfast. So she had that story. She had worked here, I guess, for many years.

[34:10] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. And that. Yeah, right above us was where the. The restaurant was at for part of the annex when they built on the two wings to the building, the west side became a restaurant up on the second floor.

[34:23] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Another good story was when, I guess, because we were just right here next to the old Boeing plant where they built the b. You know, the story of the B 29 dock, which was part of Snow White and the seven docks? A squadron.

[34:37] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[34:38] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Snow White dwarfs. And this one was Doc. But I watched it as it came in. They. You know, Tony Mazzolini had spent, like, at least a decade getting that out of the desert into Wichita. But I watched it come in on the back of trucks. And then Boeing at the time, offered a space, hanger space for it, and then when it became spirit, kept that. But they did a lot to help restore that airplane to flying condition. And many, many volunteers, many, many hours and in kind contributions from machine shops and other places. But the fun thing is, the first time it flew from Wichita to airventure in Oshkosh to be on display. I was invited to come on that flight with them and chronicle the flight. So I wrote, I did photo galleries on the flight, but that was such a, such a treat because I could sit in all the positions, like the bombardier position in the front where you think, you know, it’s just you and that glass, and that’s, that’s not bulletproof glass.

[35:47] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[35:47] MOLLY MCMILLAN: And then up in the tail, where, you know, you had to crawl through with a pressurized kind of tunnel there to get up in the back. And I was just thinking of the boys, really, during World War Two that were on that airplane and the one in the tail just up there by himself. I was like, what a lonely position that must have been. And, in fact, we had flown up the first day to Cedar Rapids, and they had kind of, for a private thing with Rockwell Collins, and a gentleman had come and said he wasn’t with Rockwell Collins, but which is now Collins, but his father had served on the B 29. And could he bring his father out before we took off? And they were like, absolutely. So he brought his father out the next day before we left to go to Oshkosh. And his father was agile enough to get up in that airplane. He had been in pilot training school, but they needed gunners, so they pulled him out of pilot training to do the gun turret position. And he was talking about how many missions he had flown. And the last mission, when the war was over, they dropped to prisoner of wars. They dropped clothing and food and that before they came back. And it was just. And I know there’s plenty of stories, but then when we flew into Oshkosh and landed, literally, people were running down the taxiway, on each side of the taxiway just to embrace that airplane coming to town. It was just something I’ll never forget.

[37:29] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, yeah, the 29s themselves are so historic. Just the plane. And then, of course, having a working one, one of only two as of this time, that are flying, you know, we still are blessed with us in our area, to have Connie Palazzios, who was one of the original riveters on dock itself in 44. And when I was out in California, Clay has, Clay Lacey has an autographed photo with the pilot of the B 29 that ultimately dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Yeah. And had met him. And he’s got some very interesting things back there that cover that. So, you know, I know we’re coming to the end here, so I want to kind of pick in some things that I think would be some interesting things that you would like to share. I mean, we talked a little bit about your time as an aviator and then in journalism, two fields that, you know, really bring about a lot of change in our, in our world. What would you say? What would be the advice you’d give to someone listening to this at some point and that maybe wants to get into aviation or aerospace?

[38:51] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, I would say that there are so many facets. Like when you think about aviation, we think about being a pilot or maybe a mechanic, but you don’t think of all the jobs that are actually part of aviation, and it’s such a wide, broad field. My advice would be go explore, because there are many, many, many more opportunities besides being a pilot, which that’s wonderful. I’m not saying don’t be a pilot because obviously that’s the fun part, too. But there are so many aspects of aviation that you may not think about that. Just explore the field because it’s fascinating. This is a quick story. One day, I had been covering aviation for a long time, and the, well, two things. The Associated Press reporter had a desk at the witch eagle when I was there. And once in a while when I’d ride the elevator with her, we’d be on the elevator and she said, you’re still covering aviation. Don’t you want to do anything else? And I said, you know, there’s so many aspects of aviation. It is, it is something different all the time. And the other thing is, I went to the post office, a branch of the post office here one day, and someone that had, you know, the same branch and that, but I hadn’t been in there for a while. And she goes, oh, Molly, I hadn’t seen you in a long time. And she said, I said, yes. And she said, I see you’re still covering aviation. And I said, yes, yes. And she said, I try to read your stories, but they are so boring. Can’t you write about something interesting like food or fashion? And so it’s what you’re interested in. And I was like, aviation is fascinating. For one, it’s a key part of this economy and a part of which, and it’s our history, but it’s just so fascinating. So, yeah, it’s, it was just fun. It was kind of, like, kind of shocking. But yet I have to keep that in mind.

[40:51] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. You brought about a really good point, though, too, is that there are so many careers within aviation that, that expand beyond being a pilot or a mechanic. You know, there’s, there’s just so many. But the other part, I think, is interesting, too. And you talked about just the fact that being a pilot is fun. And it is. You had a professional career and were a pilot as well at the same time. Now, obviously, you weren’t chartering jets for people or things like that, but you still got to be engaged and you did that in not the youthfulness of life.

[41:31] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Well said, ben.

[41:32] BEN SAUCEDA: I know I have to try to, but again, so many that solo with.

[41:38] MOLLY MCMILLAN: You know, or get their license on their 16th birthday, it was much later.

[41:41] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah, I think. I think that’s, that’s neat for people, though. So I’m 39. I’m almost 40, which is always. But it just kind of gives you that incentive to keep going because you can always learn new things.

[41:54] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. If I wasn’t too old to be an airline pilot, I might think about it. Yeah, it’s just really fun. But it’s fun to be able to go up and go to take to the air, which is in a couple of weeks ago, and this is where aviation is going. Electric aircraft, new evtols and all that. E aviation by Textron have bought pipistrel.

[42:20] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[42:21] MOLLY MCMILLAN: And that their little vellus electra is here. It’s a little electric two seat plane. And Rob skull took me up on it a couple of.

[42:29] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, wow.

[42:29] MOLLY MCMILLAN: It was a beautiful evening. Three knots of wind. It’s got like, you know, we did touch and go. It was a gorgeous night, but it was an all electric airplane where you have to watch the battery. And now they need more. They need battery technology to have longer, you know, longer missions than that. But this whole area of where aviation is going and next ten years, the next five years or whatever is so exciting. So that’s another piece of advice. This could be the better time to get into aviation, whether you’re an engineer or pilot or on the production line.

[43:07] BEN SAUCEDA: Or kind of a renaissance of aviation.

[43:11] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Some people say not since the B 29 or not since Orville, but if you look at, there was Orville right? Then we had the B 29, then we went to the moon 20 years later, and there’s been technology, but there’s not been anything quite that.

[43:29] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[43:29] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Impressive. This is a whole nother, whole nother area that’s coming.

[43:34] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. And there’s, it’s an untapped market that we’re moving forward to. So anything you want to leave us.

[43:41] MOLLY MCMILLAN: With, I would just say, please. Aviation is a coolest thing. So that’s. And I’ve been so honored to have a, have a catbird seat on history and the people and the movers and shakers in it and just been able to be the scribbler, you know, and write the first, you know, version of history on it. It’s just been a real pleasure to cover it and to see what’s all happening in that industry.

[44:07] BEN SAUCEDA: Awesome. Thank you very much.

[44:09] MOLLY MCMILLAN: Thank you. It’s been fun.