Transcript

[00:03] MARY AIKINS: My name is Mary Aikins I live in Wichita, Kansas, and my age is 96. I’ll be 97 in eight days. The date today is March 8, 2023. And we’re located here at the. Actually at the airport, one of the original airports in Wichita. I remember coming here when I was a child because it was before air conditioning and it was cool here.

[00:42] BEN SAUCEDA: I’m just here with Ben Sauceda at the aviation museum, and I am the executive director here. Okay. Oh, sorry. My name is Ben Sauceda I am 39 years old. Today is March 8, and we’re here in Wichita, Kansas, and I have the privilege of interviewing Miss Mary Aikins who is one of the Kansas Aviation hall of Fame members. So I get a very unique privilege in this job to learn and to meet people that have incredible stories in aviation and have changed the world through a lot of what they’ve done. And today I get to interview Miss Mary Aikins And so I figured we’d just have a conversation and maybe start off with just a little bit about what early life was like. Are you from Wichita originally?

[01:48] MARY AIKINS: I was born in Wesley hospital. I never got too far away, and two of my children were born there.

[01:56] BEN SAUCEDA: How many children do you have?

[01:57] MARY AIKINS: Well, I have three, but I lost one a few years ago.

[02:01] BEN SAUCEDA: Sorry to hear that. Now you have a. I believe you have your son, and then you also have. Is it a daughter that’s still.

[02:08] MARY AIKINS: I have a daughter that lives in Florida.

[02:10] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[02:11] MARY AIKINS: And she’s coming up for my birthday. She’ll be here for a week, and I have a birthday, and then Todd has a birthday. So we’re gonna celebrate all three birthdays.

[02:19] BEN SAUCEDA: There you go. I met your. I say met. I’ve had interaction with your daughter from Facebook because she has commented on a couple of pieces where we featured you in Facebook posts.

[02:32] MARY AIKINS: Oh, I didn’t realize it.

[02:34] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Yeah. So perfect. So you grow up here in Wichita. Where did you graduate from?

[02:40] MARY AIKINS: Well, I went to college Hill grade school. That school has been torn down and rebuilt since then because it was such a fire hazard. I went to Robinson Intermediate, and then my folks, because it was during the war. My dad didn’t want us to be exposed too much to possible bombings or something. Anyway, we. They bought a farm out east of Derby, Kansas, and we moved there when I was in 7th grade, but I still went to Wichita schools because all my friends went there, and it was so I wouldn’t lose contact with all of them. And I graduated. Well, I went to East High, but then I went away to a girls school for a year in Monticello. It was Monticello school in Alton, Illinois, and that was fun. I was going to go to college there, but then when I came home and all my friends were going to KU, I decided that’s where I wanted to go.

[03:46] BEN SAUCEDA: So you’re a jayhawker?

[03:47] MARY AIKINS: So I’m a jayhawker.

[03:49] BEN SAUCEDA: So you’ve been pretty happy with how they’ve played basketball lately?

[03:52] MARY AIKINS: Yes, and they were good when I was in school. In fact, they were good in football then, too. And they went to the Orange bowl.

[04:00] BEN SAUCEDA: Really? That’s. They went to the Orange bowl in what, zero eight two, I think here. That’s awesome. You went to Missouri University?

[04:09] MARY AIKINS: Well, I got married before I graduated from KU, so I finished at University of Missouri in Kansas City.

[04:18] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[04:18] MARY AIKINS: Because they had a. I majored in geology, and they had a geology department.

[04:23] BEN SAUCEDA: So in your time in geology, we’re kind of moving forward several years now. And your time in geology, what type of work did you do?

[04:30] MARY AIKINS: Well, I didn’t ever work there because I got married before I graduated, and my husband decided he wanted to be a geologist, and I couldn’t compete with him. And he had a partner who he was in school with, that they formed a company, and so they got a plane because they needed that, and that’s where I got another career.

[04:55] BEN SAUCEDA: There you go.

[04:56] MARY AIKINS: And I decided, and his partner’s wife, too, we got together and decided if they were going to be flying, we’d better learn how to land the beast. And so we all took flying lessons together, and I just loved it. And I went on and got my license, my private license, my commercial license, my flight instructor license, and that was my career. I ended up with an airline transport pilot license and as an FAA pilot examiner. And I took up aerobatic flying and entered several competitions there, and one of which was one for. No, not expert antique airplane association, and I won for first place in their competition.

[05:55] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, wow.

[05:56] MARY AIKINS: And I flew a lot for EAA in Rockford, Illinois, and then later went to Oshkosh, but I flew a number of shows at Rockford for them.

[06:08] BEN SAUCEDA: So you graduated college and you and your husband both were geologists at the time. How did you meet him before?

[06:20] MARY AIKINS: In a chemistry class.

[06:22] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[06:23] MARY AIKINS: We were seated alphabetically. My maiden name was Ainsworth.

[06:26] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, okay. So it really was chemistry then for you both?

[06:31] MARY AIKINS: The chemistry worked out.

[06:33] BEN SAUCEDA: There you go. How long were you all married for?

[06:36] MARY AIKINS: 25 years.

[06:37] BEN SAUCEDA: 25 years. Well, that’s really great, though. So you didn’t anticipate, though, making that change from geology to aviation, that came.

[06:47] MARY AIKINS: After we were married. And when he decided he wanted to go into geology, I thought, well, I can’t compete.

[06:54] BEN SAUCEDA: So when you decided to get into the aviation side, did you have children yet, or was that still a little bit off?

[07:08] MARY AIKINS: I didn’t fly when the children were babies.

[07:11] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[07:12] MARY AIKINS: When they got into grade school and we’re in school all day long, then I had the time to fly.

[07:17] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[07:18] MARY AIKINS: And so I didn’t really get into it until they were in school.

[07:22] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay, so you took it, you focused on the three little ones, and then.

[07:28] MARY AIKINS: That kept me busy. The first two were only 18 months. Apartheid.

[07:32] BEN SAUCEDA: I can only imagine how busy that would be with 218. Well, an 18 month old and a newborn. So as you got into flying, I was looking through here, you know, in the sixties, air races were still a big thing. And you participated in some of those, didn’t you?

[07:52] MARY AIKINS: Yes. I had a cousin that lived in Kansas City. Mary Anne. Later, Marianne. I can’t think better, Noah. But she flew and I didn’t. We were second cousins, our mothers were first cousins, but I didn’t really become acquainted with her until I took up flying. And along the whole, she was a pilot, too, and she asked me to fly with her in the powder puff derby. And so I said, well, yes, I’d be glad to. She had a plane that she wanted to fly, so she was a pilot and I was a co pilot, and I did more of the navigation and kept her on course, give her a heading to fly, and then the compass would recess and she’d reset it, and then I’d have to give her a new heading to fly.

[08:45] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. This was before the days of Garmin and GPS, wasn’t it? So those computer instruments that you used were pretty vital?

[08:54] MARY AIKINS: Oh, yes. Yeah.

[08:56] BEN SAUCEDA: How so? For someone who’s only been around in aviation since these gps and everything, what was it like having to. Obviously, there’s a lot of mathematics and such that go into those. Well, that’s good, because that was probably important to winning. And I guess I just kind of let the cat out of the bag. You won, didn’t you?

[09:20] MARY AIKINS: Yes, we won two years.

[09:22] BEN SAUCEDA: And were those back to back years?

[09:24] MARY AIKINS: Yes.

[09:24] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. So that. Yeah, that was. And again, I think I got along fine. That’s good, too.

[09:31] MARY AIKINS: Good friends.

[09:32] BEN SAUCEDA: Did you have a parachute, just in case?

[09:34] MARY AIKINS: No.

[09:34] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. Just in case you guys didn’t get along on the flight. So back to the flying and those times, you know, today they still do air derbies, but not like they weren’t they’re not as prevalent, so.

[09:51] MARY AIKINS: Well, I don’t know. I know for a while they. I don’t even know that the powder puff derby exists anymore. I don’t think it does, because the man wanted to get into it.

[10:02] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes.

[10:03] MARY AIKINS: And that kind of killed it.

[10:05] BEN SAUCEDA: And it started back in the 1920s with the women’s air derby that became nicknamed the Powder Puff rays. And Louise Theden was the first winner of that.

[10:16] MARY AIKINS: No, I didn’t know her, but I knew who she was.

[10:18] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. Yeah. And I know she was good friends with all of Ann beach here, so. Because, again, nowadays we don’t do things like this. How. What are air derby. When. When we talk about an air derby, what is that in terms of how the flights go?

[10:39] MARY AIKINS: Well, since they have a lot of different planes, it had to be a single engine plane, but they each had a handicap, so we raced against our own handicap. And I don’t know how they determined the handicaps for the planes, but they tried to make it equitable.

[11:00] BEN SAUCEDA: And you would go from, this was a several day event, correct?

[11:03] MARY AIKINS: Yes. It had to be done. VFR, meaning no rain clouds where you couldn’t see.

[11:12] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure.

[11:13] MARY AIKINS: And daytime only.

[11:16] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. And you would go from location to location.

[11:20] MARY AIKINS: Yeah, we had. So they could time us. If we had to stop for fuel, they could time us and not count that time against us.

[11:28] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. So in the sixties, when you did these, where did the. Where was the beginning point and ending point, roughly?

[11:35] MARY AIKINS: Well, it was called the paddlepuff Derby, but it was a cross country transcontinental race, so it all had to be. Actually, it’d start on the coast. Excuse me, in California or Washington or Oregon and go across the country and end up on the other coast.

[12:04] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[12:05] MARY AIKINS: And that could be in New York or Chattanooga. One time it went to the coast and back to Chattanooga.

[12:12] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, wow.

[12:14] MARY AIKINS: So it was a cross country race.

[12:17] BEN SAUCEDA: And as a result of those races, I know we’re fortunate here to have to showcase your key to the city that was presented to you after the powder puff race. So when you came back after winning these, what was the reception like? Obviously, there was obviously a key to the city presented, but what was.

[12:44] MARY AIKINS: There was always a banquet and presentation of the awards, and they made quite a deal out of it.

[12:52] BEN SAUCEDA: So who were some of those people that you got to meet as a result?

[12:58] MARY AIKINS: Now you’re calling in my memory. I’m terrified.

[13:02] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure.

[13:02] MARY AIKINS: But some of the men and women.

[13:07] BEN SAUCEDA: In early aviation, and we forget how rich that heritage is of early, of women early on in aviation, because the powder puff race really was a huge success across.

[13:24] MARY AIKINS: Well. And they found that women could fly as well as men.

[13:27] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, and even better, right? Sometimes. And that was great. So another thing you mentioned earlier was acrobatic.

[13:36] MARY AIKINS: Yes. My husband bought me a little open cockpit, single place biplane that was built for aerobatics, and he gave it to me, and so I took up aerobatics. Well, I couldn’t get dual in it because it was a single place plane. So I started out just getting used to a tail dragger and how to do the basic aerobatics in a clipwing cub. And just, I had some help there because I didn’t know what a loop was, snap roll or any of those things. So they demonstrate it to me, and then I’d tell me how it was done and I’d do it. And there are only a few actual aerobatic maneuvers. The others are combinations and variations of that. Like, you can do a loop, you can do a loop with a snap on top, or you can do an outside loop, and you can do a slow roll, and you can do a half slow roll and lots of variations and combinations. But there are only about four basic, really basic maneuvers. Sure.

[15:00] BEN SAUCEDA: And a vast majority of people have never had the experience to fly in an open cockpit plane. What was it like flying some of those older planes that, again, they weren’t built with the expertise of today, if you will. What was it like flying some of those biplanes?

[15:24] MARY AIKINS: Well, I didn’t fly very many of those biplanes because the one I had was really just built for aerobatics. But it was built, Curtis Pitts, a fellow from Florida, was the one that designed it and built the original planes. Dean case built my plane, which he had taken measurements from Curtis Pitts planes and just kind of copied it. But they were built in stressed for aerobatics in particular.

[15:59] BEN SAUCEDA: So being that aviation was still kind of new, even though by now it’s been about 40, 50 years at that point, what were your parents feeling about you flying?

[16:10] MARY AIKINS: Well, my dad wasn’t living at that time.

[16:12] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[16:16] MARY AIKINS: Well, mother put up with it. And when she was 100 years old, I think I took her for a flight soon before that. And I remember her saying, I don’t like this.

[16:31] BEN SAUCEDA: So how old were you when you took her for that flight? At 100, when.

[16:38] MARY AIKINS: I must. Well, let’s see. I have to do my math.

[16:42] BEN SAUCEDA: Right. It’s a good thing you like math, I guess then, right?

[16:47] MARY AIKINS: But I was up. I was. Yeah, sure.

[16:52] BEN SAUCEDA: That’s incredible. So your mom, your mom went up for her first flight at almost 100.

[16:58] MARY AIKINS: Oh, no.

[16:59] BEN SAUCEDA: Or.

[16:59] MARY AIKINS: Well, she. She lived to be 100 and died soon after that.

[17:03] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[17:04] MARY AIKINS: But she didn’t like to fly, too well.

[17:07] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure. Sure. So you talk about your certification time as well. And I know a couple gentlemen who have told me that you were their sign off on their ride checks.

[17:24] MARY AIKINS: I was an FAA examiner, pilot examiner, which meant I tested applicants for licenses and ratings.

[17:31] BEN SAUCEDA: So would you fly with them, or did you just. Okay.

[17:34] MARY AIKINS: Because they had to demonstrate that they could do certain. I’d tell them what to do, and it’s a whole list of things they had to show their proficiency.

[17:44] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. So I. One of the gentlemen is Dave Franson, and Dave’s been around in aviation for a long time as well. And he said that he thought you might have given more ride checks to pilots in Wichita than anybody else that he’s aware of.

[18:02] MARY AIKINS: There’s quite a few. I don’t know. I had to keep a record of it, and I had a little book, spiral notebook, that I kept it in.

[18:13] BEN SAUCEDA: Do you still have the notebook, or.

[18:14] MARY AIKINS: I’m not sure whether I do or not. I was trying to get a box down out of my closet before I came here because I thought my logbook was in it, but it was too heavy, and I was afraid to climb up on a step stool to get it, so I didn’t bring it.

[18:31] BEN SAUCEDA: I understand that there. So with that there, how long did you stay involved in flying? Obviously, you took your mom up.

[18:43] MARY AIKINS: I couldn’t give. I couldn’t. Well, I did some charter. I couldn’t do those anymore. They kind of frown on that after 65.

[18:55] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[18:56] MARY AIKINS: And so I flew, like, some char. Not charter, but a pilot service where the company has a plane, but they don’t have a full time pilot, so they want someone to fly the plane. I used to do some of that, and I helped deliver a plane to San Diego, Chile. Oh, wow. That was an interesting trip because I don’t speak Spanish very fluently. Yes.

[19:28] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[19:28] MARY AIKINS: But supposedly all airports, if they’re international, are supposed to have an english speaking tower operator air traffic controller handy.

[19:42] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[19:42] MARY AIKINS: They may not be right there, but they might have to go fetch them, but. So we could get along.

[19:51] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. So here’s a resolution from the city of Wichita that’s in your book. Whereas Mary Aikins is a lifelong resident of Wichita, Kansas, a housewife, mother of three children and career woman, and whereas Miss Aikins began flying an airplane in 1962, and just two years later, in 1960, ₩4, 1st place in her first aerobatics competition in 1964 and 65, was co pilot of the winning plane in the National Powder Puff Derby in 1960, ₩6, the antique show and the experimental Aircraft Women’s advance division. And whereas, Miss Aikins has climaxed her flying career to date by placing third in the women’s national aerobatics, a part of the national air races in September 1967, therefore bringing further recognition to Wichita. So in your first five years of flying, you became quite the pilot.

[20:58] MARY AIKINS: I spent a lot of time in the air, yeah.

[21:00] BEN SAUCEDA: How many flight hours did you think you have?

[21:04] MARY AIKINS: I can’t. It’s in my logbook, and.

[21:07] BEN SAUCEDA: Sure.

[21:07] MARY AIKINS: I think it’s over a thousand.

[21:09] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay. Over 10,000?

[21:11] MARY AIKINS: I think so, yeah.

[21:13] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. I was gonna say, with all the racing that you did, it would have.

[21:15] MARY AIKINS: To be well and getting to and from air shows. And someone asked me one time, how did you get the plane here? And I said, well, I flew it.

[21:27] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. And this one is signed by Mayor Clarence Vollmer, the mayor of Wichita at that time in your. And I keep referencing this, I want to put flying high, flying far, the Mary Aiken story.

[21:42] MARY AIKINS: My kids kept saying, you’ve got to write a book, mother. I wasn’t a writer, but when I moved into Larksfield, the retirement home where I live now, they liked for people to write something about their life just so it’d be in the library, and people could look up and see, meet people, get to know people better. And so they had a fellow to help you write it if you wanted to. Well, what he did was ask questions and record it, and then it would print it out. So it was pretty easy to write the book that way. He just asked me a question, and I start talking.

[22:19] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, there you go. You talk about some important things that you learned in life and how they relate to flying. And what you list here is listening, observing, teaching versus instructing, valuing patients. So these are obviously not just good, probably flying lessons, but good life lessons.

[22:52] MARY AIKINS: Yeah, I learned. It was very interesting working with different people, some a lot more talented than me, and learning from them.

[23:04] BEN SAUCEDA: So I think one of the interesting ones out of these four is teaching versus instructing. And what would you say is important in that, in terms of flight, but in life, in terms of teaching someone versus instructing them?

[23:25] MARY AIKINS: And I don’t know what I meant by that exactly.

[23:27] BEN SAUCEDA: Oh, okay. Well, I’ll read what you put in here real quick, too. I think that sometimes we are too busy being paid to parents, and we fall back on simply telling our children what to do. We say, do this, do that because we want them to be perfect, we can do that too much and not sit back and listen to what they have to say to us and what they’re really trying to tell us.

[23:49] MARY AIKINS: Sometimes you can learn a lot just by listening to them. And learn what you’re doing wrong by listening to them.

[23:55] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. Yeah. In your time as a, on the FAA side, did you have some students who maybe brought out scarier situations while you were in air?

[24:07] MARY AIKINS: I was usually more than glad to have me take over if they were in trouble.

[24:12] BEN SAUCEDA: How many times did you have to take over?

[24:15] MARY AIKINS: Well, particularly on landing.

[24:17] BEN SAUCEDA: Okay.

[24:18] MARY AIKINS: Because that’s when you’re the closest to crashing.

[24:22] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Well, and the funny thing is, you wrote here, the most important thing is don’t crash.

[24:28] MARY AIKINS: Avoid that.

[24:29] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. Yeah. That’s not a good way, teaching them.

[24:31] MARY AIKINS: How to fly straight and level and land very nicely.

[24:35] BEN SAUCEDA: And so here is, I don’t want to skip too, too far up ahead, but in 1988, so we did jump a little bit. You were recognized with the Kansas Honors award at the Wright Brothers celebration. So what was that like when you heard that you were being celebrated in the Governor’s award with the governor’s award?

[25:04] MARY AIKINS: Well, I was kind of shocked and very excited about it. They had a great big dinner party where their award was awarded and a lot of important people from Wichita there. And it was very, I was very flattered.

[25:23] BEN SAUCEDA: The looks is 1988 at the 9th annual Wright Brothers celebration. Did you ever think that when you started flying just 25 years before that your career would lead you? What do you find maybe most surprising about your time in aviation?

[25:51] MARY AIKINS: Well, the respect that people had, I never dreamed I’d do anything sensational.

[26:00] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, it definitely has been. Just looking at these different, these different accomplishments, just even in the first five years of your flying time is incredible. You know, the aerobatics or the acrobatic part, I don’t think people understand that that can be dangerous as well.

[26:23] MARY AIKINS: I mean, well, if it isn’t done right, and if you’re not watching what you’re doing.

[26:27] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[26:28] MARY AIKINS: You have to know what it’s supposed to look like. And.

[26:33] BEN SAUCEDA: The, you know, now you’re a member of the Kansas Aviation hall of Fame, which is reserved for, again, just a few people at this point in time. I think we have, right about 70 members of the Kansas Aviation hall of Fame. You talked a little bit about the respect from the award and things like that. When you hear names like Olivan beach or Walter beach or Amelia Earhart, what is it like to have your name mentioned alongside those.

[27:13] MARY AIKINS: Oh, I don’t feel like I deserve it.

[27:16] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, you’ve done so much in terms of aviation that has, has no doubt promoted or encouraged other people to be engaged in aviation.

[27:29] MARY AIKINS: I want people to respect aviation, not try to go out there and just show off, but do it so it fits a pattern and you do it right and you do it safely.

[27:46] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Yeah. Because obviously, a machine like an airplane, especially now where we’re at, it’s not a, it’s not a toy. It’s a machine that you and you mentioned have to respect because you can be very dangerous. Yeah. Did you. And going back a little bit again, there was obviously, again, a lot of danger to flying, especially early on, twenties and thirties and so on.

[28:18] MARY AIKINS: Equipment wasn’t as reliable.

[28:20] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Were there times when you were flying that you would see whether it was on the aerobatic side or general aviation? Wherever I, people were having those errors and maybe dying or hurting themselves that you felt maybe I should step back?

[28:37] MARY AIKINS: Mostly right after an air show, everybody thought they were an aerobatic pilot and you saw some awful things going on that were really dangerous. I always wanted to impress people that I’m not doing it for thrill. I’m doing it because I want to do something precision and do it right.

[28:59] BEN SAUCEDA: Did those times ever give you a pause or give you pause to say, maybe I want to go back to geology?

[29:09] MARY AIKINS: No, because I never was that good in geology. I never used it to work with it. I just did it for my education and I did want to get a degree. So I continued and got my degree and then took up flying.

[29:27] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Well, and one of the neat things about Kansas is that we really are a place for men and women to succeed and to excel. Because again, in the 19 hundreds, especially early 19 hundreds, it was unheard of for women to be leading in a lot of areas. And yet Kansas provided that avenue.

[29:52] MARY AIKINS: Yeah. When I got my airline transport pilot license, I knew I could never fly airlines. The airlines didn’t hire women back then.

[30:01] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah.

[30:02] MARY AIKINS: Now, of course, they have all women crews.

[30:04] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. Yeah.

[30:06] MARY AIKINS: So I was born too soon.

[30:09] BEN SAUCEDA: Well, no, because you paved the way for those. I think that’s the importance.

[30:14] MARY AIKINS: I show that women could fly.

[30:16] BEN SAUCEDA: Exactly. That’s the importance is that we have folks who can show and demonstrate how we’ve advanced because they were willing to step out and try something that people weren’t doing. And it’s great to have, in my opinion, a legend here that has really paved the way for people moving forward, and not just for women, but for young men as well, because I’ve encouraged young people.

[30:49] MARY AIKINS: I have a friend who has a son who’s just going through training, and he first had to get his mechanic, and he did that. And now he’s working with computers and I can’t think what.

[31:07] BEN SAUCEDA: It takes a lot of work, doesn’t it?

[31:09] MARY AIKINS: Yeah. Synthetic flying. Anyway, I want to encourage them to do it the right way. And all these little things that they don’t think are important are.

[31:24] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. I got the opportunity to first meet you in August of last year when you came up for the women of aviation exhibit opening. And you know that, again, we’re getting to where we’re expanding what we showcase. What was that like, I guess, from your viewpoint, to have an exhibit that showcases the women in Kansas and aviation?

[31:56] MARY AIKINS: Well, I think that’s only right because they have been pretty, especially like Olivia and Beach, and they have been pretty prominent in aviation.

[32:06] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Olivia, of course, leading a company, a major company for 30 years, was pretty.

[32:14] MARY AIKINS: Much, you had to be successful or it wouldn’t still be around.

[32:17] BEN SAUCEDA: Exactly. And there’s a lot of eyes that are probably on you in those cases, you know, where they might not be on others, you have a little bit, a little bit higher.

[32:28] MARY AIKINS: Well, it might inspire someone to carry on.

[32:32] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes. And that’s why I love this opportunity is because I think you have so much to offer to people that want to get out there, because again, in five years, you accomplished so much in that.

[32:46] MARY AIKINS: Well, I had the opportunity, which a lot of people would probably like to do it, but they don’t have the opportunity.

[32:53] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. So, you know, I want to ask one last question, and that would be what advice would you give to young people today who want to get involved in flying? In flying? Yes.

[33:14] MARY AIKINS: Well, go ahead and get involved in it in any way you can, because every little bit is going to help and get involved not only with the actual flying, but with the mechanics that gets it there, the airplanes, the traffic flying theme.

[33:42] BEN SAUCEDA: Would you take another airplane ride?

[33:46] MARY AIKINS: I’m not afraid to fly, but I don’t get my feet off the ground now because I would get disorientated. I can’t see well enough to fly. I don’t drive a car because it would be dangerous.

[34:01] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Well, we’re honored to again showcase you among so many others that have done a lot of. And we got a chance to take a picture with you in your hall of fame photo just a little bit ago. And so from the museum side, I want to say thank you.

[34:20] MARY AIKINS: Well, I appreciate your asking me.

[34:22] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. Well, we’re honored, too. Is there anything that you want to add?

[34:29] MARY AIKINS: Well, all those people out there that want to learn how to fly, try it. You might like it. And there are a lot of opportunities both for men and women today that there didn’t used to be and particularly through the military. Sure.

[34:50] BEN SAUCEDA: And I know you’ve inspired a lot of people throughout your career. Was there someone who inspired you in terms of getting into aviation?

[35:04] MARY AIKINS: Well, Harold Cryer is one. He used to when I was learning my aerobatics. He would watch from the ground and comment on things that I could do to improve it or that were wrong or that needed to be changed.

[35:19] BEN SAUCEDA: Yeah. That’s awesome. Perfect. Well, I appreciate it and I believe we’ll finish up with that.

[35:27] MARY AIKINS: Well, thank you. I appreciate it, too.

[35:29] BEN SAUCEDA: Thank you.

[35:30] MARY AIKINS: Enjoy talking with you.

[35:31] BEN SAUCEDA: Yes, ma’am.

[35:32] MARY AIKINS: I.